From raschottle at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 11:00:40 2023
From: raschottle at gmail.com (Robert Schottle)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 11:00:40 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
In-Reply-To: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
References: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
Message-ID: <02AB5CEC-747D-4F3B-860A-716A10F7A840@gmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/93c40f95/attachment.htm>

From pgflynn1 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 11:24:38 2023
From: pgflynn1 at gmail.com (Peter Flynn)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 14:24:38 -0500
Subject: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
In-Reply-To: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
References: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
Message-ID: <E4A3051A-61EE-4078-AA9B-C7435FC4F089@gmail.com>

I was not there at the time, Mike, but I recall the story of an H-34 with a stuck throttle that ended up killing all in the aircraft. The throttle was stuck in the full open position. The pilots controlled Nr by speeding up and possibly climbing. The decision was made to fly over the field, cut off the fuel and autorotate to a safe landing. The aircraft was going really fast when the engine quit, the Nr decayed rapidly and, reportedly, the blades conned and separated from the aircraft. Or perhaps they oversped the head and the rotors departed.

Again, I was not there and I cannot vouch for the accuracy of the accident. I doubt that there were many H-34?s at NASIB at that time so it may have happened long before. (I have often wondered if they had executed a zoom climbed instead of going at Vmax they could have autorotated successfully.) Perhaps there are some old hands who can comment.

Pete

> On Feb 6, 2023, at 18:12, <retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org> <retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org> wrote:
> 
> Anyone on the list around Imperial Beach during 1968 on the list remember a fatal helicopter mishap which took the lives of all of the crew. I believe it took off and got over the beach heading to the dip areas and immediately turnaround and returned to the airfield completing autorotation ending up a Class A and loosing the crew. I am not sure what model helicopter it was. Our former Congressman from Imperial Beach has reached out to NHAHS to help them identify the crew involved for a city memorial they are planning??We are assisting the former congressman and mayor, Brian Bilbray of Imperial Beach with this?mgb
>  
> Mike Brattland  CDR USN (Ret.)
> NHA Retired Affairs Director/Membership/Signal Charlie Coordinator
> NHA Trustee
> NHA/NHAHS/NHASF Webmaster  CGAA LTM P-5463
> Naval Helicopter Association (NHA) LTM #70  R-12230
>    <image001.png>
>  P.O Box 180578
> Coronado, California 92178-0578
> 619 435-7139 Office  619 454-0496 Cell
> retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  www.navalhelicopterassn.org <x-msg://5/www.navalhelicopterassn.org%20>
> www.nhahistoricalsociety.org <x-msg://5/www.nhahistoricalsociety.org%20>  www.nhascholarshipfund.org <http://www.nhascholarshipfund.org/>  
> www.navalhelicopterassociation.org <http://www.navalhelicopterassociation.org/>
>  
>  
>  
> -- 
> Helobubbas mailing list
> Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
> http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas <http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas>
+++
Peter Flynn
pgflynn1 at gmail.com
(703) 622-7471 (M)



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/2754764a/attachment.htm>

From retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org  Tue Feb  7 11:51:41 2023
From: retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org (retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 11:51:41 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
In-Reply-To: <02AB5CEC-747D-4F3B-860A-716A10F7A840@gmail.com>
References: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
 <02AB5CEC-747D-4F3B-860A-716A10F7A840@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <004001d93b2d$99955c90$ccc015b0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>

Bob and Pete thanks so much. After I posted this I used Ancestry to search and I believe I found the mishap article in a number of newspapers incolving a HC-5 UH-2C which crashed at the East end of IB filling all three crewmembers?.one pilot and two crewman. Jim O?Brien has mentioned he did not believe they single piloted the H-2 back there without someone sitting I the left seat, so we are guessing the left seat was manned by one of the two mishap crewman?.
I have attached two cropped images from the newspapers I found online?..As it turns out Congressman Bilbray witnessed this mishap and taol me about it during our phonecall yesterday. He was in high school at the time and returning from surfing nd at the very West end of IB on that frontage road heading heom when he saw it come down and crash?.He mentioned it had something to do with an autorotation, but he was not too clear on details.
I shold add that Jim O?Brien mentione din our discussion this ?bird could also have belonged to HC-1 at this time. I guessed on HC-5?have not found anything to indicate which command. Jim knows osme folks who were there at the time. He said he checked in to HC-5 in 1969 himself after the mishap?.
I found some other mishaps during 1968 but they were over thee water in the IB area, North Island PT Loma and Seal Beach areas, but only this one on Imperial Beach during 1968???mgb
 
From: Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> On Behalf Of Robert Schottle
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 11:01 AM
To: Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
Subject: Re: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
 
Mike: I don?t know if this is the mishap in question. The H-3 had a utility reservoir which amongst other functions serviced the automatic rotor brake. I recall an instance where that reservoir became pressurized in flight and the automatic rotor brake was wrongfully pressurized in flight and the rotor brake was applied with catastrophic results. Following that mishap, in later years that reservoir was vented to preclude that from happening. I know that vent arrangement was a preflight item on the aircraft. 
Bob Schottle
Sent from my iPhone



On Feb 7, 2023, at 10:30 AM, retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  wrote:
?
Anyone on the list around Imperial Beach during 1968 on the list remember a fatal helicopter mishap which took the lives of all of the crew. I believe it took off and got over the beach heading to the dip areas and immediately turnaround and returned to the airfield completing autorotation ending up a Class A and loosing the crew. I am not sure what model helicopter it was. Our former Congressman from Imperial Beach has reached out to NHAHS to help them identify the crew involved for a city memorial they are planning??We are assisting the former congressman and mayor, Brian Bilbray of Imperial Beach with this?mgb
 
Mike Brattland  CDR USN (Ret.)
NHA Retired Affairs Director/Membership/Signal Charlie Coordinator
NHA Trustee
NHA/NHAHS/NHASF Webmaster  CGAA LTM P-5463 
Naval Helicopter Association (NHA) LTM #70  R-12230
   
<image001.png>
P.O Box 180578
Coronado, California 92178-0578
619 435-7139 Office  619 454-0496 Cell
retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>   www.navalhelicopterassn.org 
www.nhahistoricalsociety.org  www.nhascholarshipfund.org <http://www.nhascholarshipfund.org/>   
www.navalhelicopterassociation.org <http://www.navalhelicopterassociation.org/>  
 
 
 
-- 
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com> 
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/a393513f/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: News-CA-PR_2.1968_12_24-0003-cropped.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1778367 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/a393513f/attachment.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: News-VI-PR.1968_12_23-0002 cropped.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 533678 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/a393513f/attachment-0001.jpg>

From kblack1967 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 12:16:39 2023
From: kblack1967 at gmail.com (kevin black)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 12:16:39 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part Of A
 Larger, More Troubling Pattern
In-Reply-To: <008001d938d8$a9369bc0$fba3d340$@gerlecreek.com>
References: <CA+6+U3+s+hLWsm6_Q=xqUfWgJy8L3my+bRHsoj_9xv=_S_cz2w@mail.gmail.com>
 <0D6265F5-1A62-49C9-AC04-70ABEC6F39AD@arvig.net>
 <DM6PR12MB46340D359A57FD74AB4515F7D5D49@DM6PR12MB4634.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <003201d938cc$7af9b7d0$70ed2770$@comcast.net>
 <008001d938d8$a9369bc0$fba3d340$@gerlecreek.com>
Message-ID: <4b49cb3e-bcdf-6061-9e77-17e015a76fe6@gmail.com>

The ultimate coup would be to commandeer one of these and be able to 
control it and have all it collected and be able to land it 
successfully.? That is the fear I have with ALL /drone/robotic/AI 
machines is that our enemies will figure out how to take command of it 
and then either just turn it off or use it against us.? That is where a 
man in the loop mechanical mechanism may still have an advantage.? 
Something capable but also simple and immune to electronic manipulation.

On 2/4/2023 12:38 PM, Michael G. Brattland wrote:
>
> Pretty interesting Andy?.I was thinking shotting it down might not be 
> as easy as you think?Article is nice background on this aspect?mgb
>
> *From:*Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> *On Behalf Of 
> *Andy Cain
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 11:11 AM
> *To:* 'Helobubbas' <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part 
> Of A Larger, More Troubling Pattern
>
> https://www.businessinsider.com/shooting-down-chinese-spy-balloon-harder-than-it-seems-2023-2
>
> We get much better intel from observing it than killing it. And, we 
> can spoof it as well.
>
> *From:*Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> *On Behalf Of 
> *Marc Liebman
> *Sent:* Saturday, February 4, 2023 10:58 AM
> *To:* Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part 
> Of A Larger, More Troubling Pattern
>
> The warrior in me says shoot it or them down. That?s what the PRC, 
> DPRK, Soviet Union/Russia does when our recon planes came near their 
> borders.
>
> So, I don?t understand the reasoning. The PRC is going to poke and 
> prod until we do something. If this balloon goes down over Montana, 
> what is it going to land on, some cows? The payload would be worth its 
> weight in gold in that we?ll learn more about their capabilities and 
> see what IP was stolen.
>
> The cynic in me says we have nothing to shoot it down with?.
>
> Marc Liebman
>
> www.marcliebman.com <http://www.marcliebman.com>
>
> _Author of_:
>
> /Cherubs 2/
>
> /Big Mother 40/
>
> /Render Harmless/
>
> /Forgotten/
>
> /Inner Look/
>
> /Moscow Airlift/
>
> /The Simushir Island Incident/
>
> /Raider of the Scottish Coast/
>
> /Carronade/
>
> /Flight of the Pawnee/
>
> /Failure to Fire/
>
> //
>
> *From: *Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> on behalf of 
> Harold Brattland <habrattland at arvig.net>
> *Date: *Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 11:45 AM
> *To: *Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part 
> Of A Larger, More Troubling Pattern
>
> So who has the catchers mitt, Coasties or Navy, to catch the balloon 
> when it comes down off-shore?? ?Maybe those MH-53 with their tow gear 
> to sweep-up the parts?
> AF Mid Air Retrieval Gear is in the bone yard, as is the old balloon 
> chasers!
>
> h
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>     On Feb 3, 2023, at 23:02, James Gould <nado.dad at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>     ?
>
>     To allow this balloon to fly over one millimeter of U.S. territory
>     is unconscionable! To allow it to continue over most of the
>     country is treason.
>
>     On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 11:52 Michael G. Brattland
>     <mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com <mailto:mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-over-montana-is-part-of-a-larger-more-troubling-pattern
>         <https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-over-montana-is-part-of-a-larger-more-troubling-pattern>
>
>         */CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.)
>         /**/mgbrattland at brattland.org/*
>         <mailto:mgbrattland at brattland.org>*//**/mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com/*
>         <mailto:mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com>
>
>         */retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org/*
>         <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>*//**/mgbrattland at helobubbas.com/*
>         <mailto:mgbrattland at helobubbas.com>*//*
>
>         */Helobubbas E-Mail List Moderator /Admin 619 454-0496/*
>
>         */Un-Subscribe to Helobubbas E-Mail List/*
>         <https://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas>
>
>         -- 
>         Helobubbas mailing list
>         Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
>         http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
>         <http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas>
>
>     -- 
>     Helobubbas mailing list
>     Helobubbas at helobubbas.com
>     http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/d3982dee/attachment.htm>

From retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org  Tue Feb  7 12:26:07 2023
From: retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org (retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 12:26:07 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968-edited
In-Reply-To: <004001d93b2d$99955c90$ccc015b0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
References: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
 <02AB5CEC-747D-4F3B-860A-716A10F7A840@gmail.com>
 <004001d93b2d$99955c90$ccc015b0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
Message-ID: <007101d93b32$690689a0$3b139ce0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>

 
Bob and Pete thanks so much. After I posted this I used Ancestry to search and I believe I found the mishap article in a number of newspapers incolving a HC-5 UH-2C which crashed at the east end of IB killing all three crewmembers?.one pilot and two crewman. Jim O?Brien has mentioned he did not believe they single piloted the H-2 back then without someone sitting the left seat, so we are guessing the left seat was manned by one of the two mishap crewman?.
I have attached two cropped images from the newspapers I found online?..As it turns out Congressman Bilbray witnessed this mishap and told me about it during our phonecall yesterday. He was in high school at the time and returning from surfing  at the very west end of IB on that frontage road heading home when he saw it come down and crash?.He mentioned it had something to do with an autorotation, but he was not too clear on details.
I should add that Jim O?Brien mentione during our discussion this ?bird could also have belonged to HC-1 at this time. I guessed on HC-5?have not found anything to indicate which command. Jim knows some folks who were there at the time and will followup. He checked in to HC-5 in 1969 himself after the mishap?.
I found some other mishaps during 1968 but they were over thee water in the IB, North Island PT Loma and Seal Beach areas, but only this one on Imperial Beach during 1968???mgb
 
From: Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> > On Behalf Of Robert Schottle
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 11:01 AM
To: Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas at helobubbas.com> >
Subject: Re: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
 
Mike: I don?t know if this is the mishap in question. The H-3 had a utility reservoir which amongst other functions serviced the automatic rotor brake. I recall an instance where that reservoir became pressurized in flight and the automatic rotor brake was wrongfully pressurized in flight and the rotor brake was applied with catastrophic results. Following that mishap, in later years that reservoir was vented to preclude that from happening. I know that vent arrangement was a preflight item on the aircraft. 
Bob Schottle
Sent from my iPhone



On Feb 7, 2023, at 10:30 AM, retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  wrote:
?
Anyone on the list around Imperial Beach during 1968 on the list remember a fatal helicopter mishap which took the lives of all of the crew. I believe it took off and got over the beach heading to the dip areas and immediately turnaround and returned to the airfield completing autorotation ending up a Class A and loosing the crew. I am not sure what model helicopter it was. Our former Congressman from Imperial Beach has reached out to NHAHS to help them identify the crew involved for a city memorial they are planning??We are assisting the former congressman and mayor, Brian Bilbray of Imperial Beach with this?mgb
 
Mike Brattland  CDR USN (Ret.)
NHA Retired Affairs Director/Membership/Signal Charlie Coordinator
NHA Trustee
NHA/NHAHS/NHASF Webmaster  CGAA LTM P-5463 
Naval Helicopter Association (NHA) LTM #70  R-12230
   
<image001.png>
P.O Box 180578
Coronado, California 92178-0578
619 435-7139 Office  619 454-0496 Cell
retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>   www.navalhelicopterassn.org 
www.nhahistoricalsociety.org  www.nhascholarshipfund.org <http://www.nhascholarshipfund.org/>   
www.navalhelicopterassociation.org <http://www.navalhelicopterassociation.org/>  
 
 
 
-- 
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com> 
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/76b9d6ab/attachment.htm>

From retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org  Tue Feb  7 13:31:32 2023
From: retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org (retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 13:31:32 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] FW: Re: NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter
 Mishap-1968-edited
In-Reply-To: <607482704.1726974.1675804232134@connect.xfinity.com>
References: <003601d93a80$7f7c55a0$7e7500e0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
 <02AB5CEC-747D-4F3B-860A-716A10F7A840@gmail.com>
 <004001d93b2d$99955c90$ccc015b0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
 <007101d93b32$690689a0$3b139ce0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>
 <1894705759.1726513.1675803696870@[96.118.139.97]>
 <607482704.1726974.1675804232134@connect.xfinity.com>
Message-ID: <00ac01d93b3b$8cde52f0$a69af8d0$@navalhelicopterassn.org>

Thanks John for the rest of the story??mgb
 
From: JOHN FEARS <2jafears at comcast.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 1:11 PM
To: retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968-edited
 
 
 
 
Mike, 
Got the email with newspaper dates and Tommy Mathews name which I was reluctant to use first. The initial mention of a 1968  H 3 crash was before I came over to the dark side, and I had this accident in my P - brain as 1969. At any rate, it was a Sunday afternoon routine post maintenance check flight thus the one pilot aboard. 
Accident attributed to combining gearbox access door opening / departing in flight on final  approach impacting at least one rotor blade causing  uncontrollable separation and fatal crash.  
Change to door locking mechanism was accomplished  quite quickly. It was an H2C, HC -1 bird. 
 
Take Care, 
         JAF 
 
 
On 02/07/2023 3:26 PM retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  wrote: 
 
 
 
Bob and Pete thanks so much. After I posted this I used Ancestry to search and I believe I found the mishap article in a number of newspapers incolving a HC-5 UH-2C which crashed at the east end of IB killing all three crewmembers?.one pilot and two crewman. Jim O?Brien has mentioned he did not believe they single piloted the H-2 back then without someone sitting the left seat, so we are guessing the left seat was manned by one of the two mishap crewman?.
I have attached two cropped images from the newspapers I found online?..As it turns out Congressman Bilbray witnessed this mishap and told me about it during our phonecall yesterday. He was in high school at the time and returning from surfing  at the very west end of IB on that frontage road heading home when he saw it come down and crash?.He mentioned it had something to do with an autorotation, but he was not too clear on details.
I should add that Jim O?Brien mentione during our discussion this ?bird could also have belonged to HC-1 at this time. I guessed on HC-5?have not found anything to indicate which command. Jim knows some folks who were there at the time and will followup. He checked in to HC-5 in 1969 himself after the mishap?.
I found some other mishaps during 1968 but they were over thee water in the IB, North Island PT Loma and Seal Beach areas, but only this one on Imperial Beach during 1968???mgb
 
From: Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> > On Behalf Of Robert Schottle
Sent: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 11:01 AM
To: Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:helobubbas at helobubbas.com> >
Subject: Re: [Helobubbas] NAS Imperial Beach Helicopter Mishap-1968
 
Mike: I don?t know if this is the mishap in question. The H-3 had a utility reservoir which amongst other functions serviced the automatic rotor brake. I recall an instance where that reservoir became pressurized in flight and the automatic rotor brake was wrongfully pressurized in flight and the rotor brake was applied with catastrophic results. Following that mishap, in later years that reservoir was vented to preclude that from happening. I know that vent arrangement was a preflight item on the aircraft. 
Bob Schottle
Sent from my iPhone




On Feb 7, 2023, at 10:30 AM, retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  wrote:
 
Anyone on the list around Imperial Beach during 1968 on the list remember a fatal helicopter mishap which took the lives of all of the crew. I believe it took off and got over the beach heading to the dip areas and immediately turnaround and returned to the airfield completing autorotation ending up a Class A and loosing the crew. I am not sure what model helicopter it was. Our former Congressman from Imperial Beach has reached out to NHAHS to help them identify the crew involved for a city memorial they are planning??We are assisting the former congressman and mayor, Brian Bilbray of Imperial Beach with this?mgb
 
Mike Brattland  CDR USN (Ret.)
NHA Retired Affairs Director/Membership/Signal Charlie Coordinator
NHA Trustee
NHA/NHAHS/NHASF Webmaster  CGAA LTM P-5463
Naval Helicopter Association (NHA) LTM #70  R-12230
   
<image001.png>
P.O Box 180578
Coronado, California 92178-0578
619 435-7139 Office  619 454-0496 Cell
retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org <mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>   www.navalhelicopterassn.org 
www.nhahistoricalsociety.org  www.nhascholarshipfund.org <http://www.nhascholarshipfund.org/>   
www.navalhelicopterassociation.org <http://www.navalhelicopterassociation.org/>  
 
 
 
-- 
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com> 
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
-- 
Helobubbas mailing list 
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com <mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>  
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/8a26f97a/attachment.htm>

From johnhyde1944 at gmail.com  Tue Feb  7 14:02:34 2023
From: johnhyde1944 at gmail.com (John Hyde)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 16:02:34 -0600
Subject: [Helobubbas] =?utf-8?q?Helo_crash__in_IB_in_68=2E_H-2c_belonged_?=
 =?utf-8?q?to_HC-1_Det_63=2E_=28KH=29_on_a_test_flight=2E_The_sliding_door?=
 =?utf-8?q?s_over_the_the_combining_gear_box_came_off_and_wrapped_around_t?=
 =?utf-8?q?he_rotor_blade=2E_Pilot_Tommy_Mathew=E2=80=99s=2E?=
Message-ID: <A7B37577-A8BE-4993-BBA2-96DC67EBE294@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone



From mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com  Tue Feb  7 15:47:23 2023
From: mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com (Michael G. Brattland)
Date: Tue, 7 Feb 2023 15:47:23 -0800
Subject: [Helobubbas] Iran Unveils Underground 'Fighter Caves' Housing F-4
	Phantoms
Message-ID: <00e901d93b4e$88a590a0$99f0b1e0$@gerlecreek.com>

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/iran-unveils-underground-fighter-caves
-housing-f-4-phantoms 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230207/318adb6d/attachment.htm>

From marc at marcliebman.com  Tue Feb  7 20:07:17 2023
From: marc at marcliebman.com (Marc Liebman)
Date: Wed, 8 Feb 2023 04:07:17 +0000
Subject: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part Of A
 Larger, More Troubling Pattern
In-Reply-To: <130660495.618203.1675722877402@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <DM6PR12MB46340D359A57FD74AB4515F7D5D49@DM6PR12MB4634.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
 <D7FDBC1B-5178-48E4-8A00-59340959515D@me.com>
 <130660495.618203.1675722877402@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <DM6PR12MB4634B5CF7DA713F8DD4F1DC2D5D89@DM6PR12MB4634.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

The advantage of the balloon is staying power, i.e. it can stay in one place for longer than a satellite can. We used have charts that showed the path of Soviet and PRC satellite that gave is swath and times and we used to operate accordingly.

So, the question is why did the PRC send it?  Was it a provocation? Or did they need better intel? This is typical of the regime, i.e. always poking sharp sticks at their adversaries ? Japan, South Korea, Vietnam and the list goes on.

Again, why?  What did they hope to gain? Clearly, they understood the political risks.

Marc Liebman
www.marcliebman.com<http://www.marcliebman.com>
Author of:
Cherubs 2
Big Mother 40
Render Harmless
Forgotten
Inner Look
Moscow Airlift
The Simushir Island Incident
Raider of the Scottish Coast
Carronade
Flight of the Pawnee
Failure to Fire



From: Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> on behalf of ahaefner at aol.com <ahaefner at aol.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 7, 2023 at 12:31 PM
To: helobubbas at helobubbas.com <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>, helobubbas at helobubbas.com <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
Subject: Re: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part Of A Larger, More Troubling Pattern
I tend to go with the official statements that the balloon couldn't collect any intell that their low satellites aren't already collecting, but that doesn't answer the dilemma of the Trojan Horse; what else could be in the belly of the basket?

Is that why you wait for a safe zone to take it down? If so that doesn't answer the question of what were you going to do if it started to descend on a path to a major city/base etc (target)?

Just wondering what we really knew and didn't know as it first entered our airspace over Alaska?

W/r, AL

In a message dated 2/4/2023 11:08:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, russ.smith at me.com writes:


And, the gov?t needs to retrieve it within 12 miles of the coast to prevent ?an international incident??  maybe a few well place shots with steel bullets to start its deflation/ descent before that?

On Feb 4, 2023, at 09:58, Marc Liebman <marc at marcliebman.com> wrote:



The warrior in me says shoot it or them down. That?s what the PRC, DPRK, Soviet Union/Russia does when our recon planes came near their borders.



So, I don?t understand the reasoning. The PRC is going to poke and prod until we do something. If this balloon goes down over Montana, what is it going to land on, some cows? The payload would be worth its weight in gold in that we?ll learn more about their capabilities and see what IP was stolen.



The cynic in me says we have nothing to shoot it down with?.



Marc Liebman

www.marcliebman.com<http://www.marcliebman.com>

Author of:

Cherubs 2

Big Mother 40

Render Harmless

Forgotten

Inner Look

Moscow Airlift

The Simushir Island Incident

Raider of the Scottish Coast

Carronade

Flight of the Pawnee

Failure to Fire







From: Helobubbas <helobubbas-bounces at helobubbas.com> on behalf of Harold Brattland <habrattland at arvig.net>
Date: Saturday, February 4, 2023 at 11:45 AM
To: Helobubbas <helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
Subject: Re: [Helobubbas] China's Spy Balloon Over Montana Is Part Of A Larger, More Troubling Pattern

So who has the catchers mitt, Coasties or Navy, to catch the balloon when it comes down off-shore??  Maybe those MH-53 with their tow gear to sweep-up the parts?
AF Mid Air Retrieval Gear is in the bone yard, as is the old balloon chasers!

h

Sent from my iPad



On Feb 3, 2023, at 23:02, James Gould <nado.dad at gmail.com> wrote:



To allow this balloon to fly over one millimeter of U.S. territory is unconscionable! To allow it to continue over most of the country is treason.



On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 11:52 Michael G. Brattland <mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com<mailto:mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com>> wrote:

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/chinas-spy-balloon-over-montana-is-part-of-a-larger-more-troubling-pattern

CDR Mike Brattland, USN (Ret.) mgbrattland at brattland.org<mailto:mgbrattland at brattland.org>   mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com<mailto:mgbrattland at gerlecreek.com>

retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org<mailto:retiredaffairs at navalhelicopterassn.org>  mgbrattland at helobubbas.com<mailto:mgbrattland at helobubbas.com>

Helobubbas E-Mail List Moderator /Admin 619 454-0496

Un-Subscribe to Helobubbas E-Mail List<https://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas>







--
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com<mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas

--
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com<mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
--
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com<mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
--
Helobubbas mailing list
Helobubbas at helobubbas.com<mailto:Helobubbas at helobubbas.com>
http://www.helobubbas.com/mailman/listinfo/helobubbas
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://www.helobubbas.com/pipermail/helobubbas/attachments/20230208/c3692acc/attachment.htm>